From developer to CTO – meet Gertjan Oude Lohuis & Eric Klaasse

The CTO vs Standing Quo collection research how CTOs problem the present state of affairs at their firm to push it towards a brand new peak … or to reserve it from doom.

“Whenever you step right into a management function over folks you recognize, you notice you’re now chargeable for their wage discussions and approving their break day.”

You be part of a brand new firm as a developer, meet your new associates, develop your technical experience and… attempt to determine how you can grow to be its new Chief Know-how Officer?

No, it doesn’t work like that. And it didn’t work like that for Gertjan, both. And but, about 5 years after becoming a member of, he did grow to be a CTO of CloudSuite. How did he do it?

Collectively together with his mentor and CloudSuite’s co-founder Eric Klaasse, Gertjan walked us via his profession from the begin to the current day. Sit round to search out out:

• why a product-oriented perspective and a want to form your surroundings are essential,
• how you can transcend technical abilities and exhibit management qualities early on and keep associates with each your friends and the superior,
• how you can cope with the strain of taking over increasingly obligations for key areas of the corporate.

Meet Gertjan and Eric!

About Gertjan, Eric, and CloudSuite

CloudSuite’s imaginative and prescient

Arkadiusz Kowalski: Good day, Gertjan and Eric. Thanks for locating a while for us in such a busy a part of the 12 months. Plainly yours is crammed not solely with skilled challenges. How did the journey to Antwerp go?

Gertjan: We do a number of journeys like this one for workforce constructing. Antwerp was enjoyable, however not as enjoyable because the one we had in Valencia.

Eric Klaasse: Now, Valencia was epic!

Your workforce appears to have a number of enjoyable but additionally quite a bit on its plate. Given how versatile the CloudSuite platform is, focusing on each B2B and B2C audiences, I think about that it’s additionally very numerous by way of abilities and attitudes.

May you inform me extra about your workforce and the challenges you’re dealing with immediately at CloudSuite?

Gertjan Oude Lohuis: The largest problem that we’re now dealing with is a shift in direction of a extra product-oriented frontend growth.

Frontend has all the time been our customization place the place each buyer and each theme might have its personal outing on CloudSuite. It was the place we did customized implementations. That grew just a little uncontrolled, with hard-to-maintain setups and configurations.

The shift away from a growth playground to a extra product-oriented method went just a little gradual at first. Lately, the product workforce made a dedication to assist the frontend workforce construct and implement a frontend implementation library. There are a number of technical challenges. It’s a giant cross-functional collaboration.

Is that this the way you see it as a CPO, too, Eric?

Eric: Undoubtedly,  that is one among our largest challenges, but additionally not the one one.

One other problem is that we assist B2B channels and B2C channels on the identical time, which is fairly troublesome.

We excel at supporting enterprise client channels, however our objective is to rank among the many prime gamers on this area. To realize that, we should compete with specialised B2C eCommerce platforms.

Discover out extra about how the CloudSuite platform works (Dutch language, English subtitles accessible)

Becoming a member of as a software program developer

It is going to be fascinating to listen to about all these challenges as skilled by Gertjan over his CloudSuite profession.

Gertjan, you joined as a software program engineer in 2017. Over time, you’ve risen via the ranks and ultimately made all of it the best way to the CTO. Inform me about your first expertise at CloudSuite.

Gertjan: Positive, however let’s begin a bit earlier.

Earlier than CloudSuite, I labored for an organization in Amsterdam for 12 years. I had many obligations, together with software program growth, DevOps and automation, and training junior builders. After I left, I took a number of months off to resolve what I wished to do subsequent.

CloudSuite was one of many locations I had an interview at. Proper from the beginning, I had a superb feeling about Eric, Siebe, and Okko, the three board members on the time. Nevertheless, I didn’t rush issues. I took a number of extra months to orient myself and had extra interviews. I stored CloudSuite on a leash, as we are saying in Dutch.

I stored coming again to CloudSuite due to all of the positivity I noticed there. I additionally felt their workforce had a number of enthusiasm for the product. That ultimately received me over, I accepted their supply, and I joined as a senior developer.

Throughout my orientation interval, I made a decision that I wished to search out out If I’m appropriate for the function of a workforce lead. I discussed that in one among my talks with Eric. He replied that they had been certainly in search of somebody who might present day-to-day steering to the workforce. He even hinted at a but larger function, however at the moment I didn’t know what he had in thoughts.

About half a 12 months in, I obtained the workforce lead place I wished. It offered me with day-to-day administration obligations however no HR-related work. I headed a workforce of about seven or eight builders.

I’m glad you talked about product-oriented growth. CTOs we talked to within the collection stated that they need their builders to be extra than simply coders. They need to take part in DevOps, architectural, and product selections. They need to cooperate with different departments and be shut with shoppers.

How shut was your perspective in these early days to that product-oriented perfect?

Gertjan: Again once I first joined, cloud growth was much more segregated. We had a backend workforce that targeted on the backend solely. The frontend workforce labored independently and there was not a lot cooperation. What’s extra, builders weren’t actually involved with the consumer, with a notable exception of customized implementations.

Involving builders in determining what our clients really need is one thing that we’ve found and strongly pushed for during the last years.

In the present day, it’s crucial for all of the groups to work collectively. That goes for each customer-specific implementations and product-specific characteristic growth. The implementation workforce includes itself in conceptualization and speaking with clients as a result of they would be the ones to truly make the imaginative and prescient come true.

I strongly agree with the sentiment {that a} workforce lead and even every senior developer must have a broad perspective of their product. Individuals do have their very own specializations and ability units they’re employed for, like frontend or database efficiency, however they should understand how they match into the broader context of the product they work on.

Eric: Rather a lot has modified certainly. Earlier than Gertjan joined, we didn’t have any launch cycles. Every workforce labored on the identical code. Every had a specific model of the code applied of their system, primarily based on their wants.

Moreover, the shoppers we built-in with gave us their knowledge. We imported it by batch scripts. All the new buyer necessities had been developed and applied instantly. In a approach, we adopted the client’s timeline and there was little communication between them and our workforce.

In some unspecified time in the future, I imagine it was after Gertjan got here alongside, our processes matured. We launched a month-to-month launch. That approach, each buyer obtained an replace on the identical time – everybody was on the identical web page. It has modified our lives fully.

Eric, I requested about product-oriented growth as a result of I additionally got here throughout the opinion that for a developer to have a shot at being a pacesetter, they should present a pure curiosity within the high-level facets of constructing merchandise. Considered one of our visitors known as it “an urge to construct.”

You’re not only a co-founder of CloudSuite. You’ve additionally managed builders throughout many alternative firms. What do you consider this idea?

Eric: It’s a really fascinating idea. It’s a part of a cultural match, however there may be extra to it than that.

When somebody applies for a job at our firm, we place nice worth on a superb cultural match. Even when a candidate is a superb developer or architect, it’s vital that they really feel comfy with how we work. With out that alignment, collaboration can grow to be difficult, which could affect the expertise of the entire workforce.

Having stated that, clashes aren’t all the time an indication of a foul cultural match. 4 or 5 years in the past, we employed a brand new senior software program developer. He was a superb match for us, a visionary. He and Gertjan each helped overhaul our growth course of.

Gertjan: I used to be the software program growth supervisor round that point.

We had been trying to rent a senior developer. He referred to himself as a senior however solely had about 5 years {of professional} expertise, which made me just a little suspicious.

However in the course of the interview, he actually received us over. He confirmed that he had his personal imaginative and prescient and offered constructive concepts that had been meant to construct upon and enhance what we do.

As soon as employed, he instantly didn’t draw back from criticizing the code and calling everybody out for it. We had a tough begin. However we favored his concepts a lot that we determined he ought to have extra say in how issues go. We made him a software program architect and it turned out that it’s what he wished from the beginning.

Quickly, we each launched microservice-based structure and steady deployment throughout the entire group. He thought that iterative growth and the power to check ceaselessly had been important. He began by taking one characteristic and rewrote it into the brand new structure. It grew alongside the prevailing code base over the course of months.

Finally, everybody purchased his imaginative and prescient for software program and product growth, builders and administration alike. We stay on that path immediately.

Changing into a pacesetter

Plainly we’re prepared to speak extra about that point whenever you really obtained to steer groups at CloudSuite, Gertjan.

I’m fascinated about your perspective on managing stress. It’s in all probability simpler to speak about high-level visions and be product-oriented whenever you solely share a small portion of accountability for the product. However whenever you grow to be a pacesetter, your selections are scrutinized and you might even grow to be a scapegoat when issues go flawed. Did you wrestle with that?

Gertjan: One of many nice issues about working at CloudSuite is that they all the time give time to heat as much as any problem. I took small steps and I adjusted to every new place regularly. Eric and the remainder of the group had been very supportive of that.

I imagine {that a} massive a part of CloudSuite’s firm tradition is that we by no means permit anybody to grow to be a scapegoat. We take accountability – we by no means play on the person, as we are saying in Dutch.

Does that imply that you simply by no means place blame on a single particular person?

Gertjan: After all, somebody all the time has to decide and take accountability, but it surely doesn’t imply that your head can be on a stick if issues don’t work out the best way you wished.

There’s one thing else that usually goes hand in hand with inserting blame – it’s micromanaging.

I had an interview with Hiber’s Bart Oor who advised me that when he first turned a supervisor, he actually struggled with it. I do know that this can be a frequent difficulty for younger leaders, however from what I heard, some have a tough time unlearning this behavior. How was it in your case?

Gertjan: I largely averted micromanaging. I already knew the workforce and what it was able to once I took up the management function. Delegating obligations and placing belief in individuals are basic on the subject of giving your teammates a way of undertaking possession.

One factor I struggled with is maintaining myself away from the keyboard. I nonetheless like programming, debugging, or automating. However I nonetheless have to let my teammates do this as a result of they will solely study and enhance by doing it. My accountability as a pacesetter lies elsewhere and I have to know when to let go.

Eric:  I’ve by no means noticed any sort of micromanaging in the best way Gertjan leads the workforce.

And that is actually saying one thing as a result of most leaders micromanage quite a bit. It’s troublesome to not. If you’re actually skilled and good at one thing, you usually are inclined to assume that you are able to do the whole lot higher. However you might want to study to belief and delegate for the great of the corporate.

However what When you had been to take up a management place for an entire new workforce. You don’t know the character and abilities of its workforce members but. How would you keep away from micromanaging?

Gertjan: A state of affairs the place you be part of an current workforce in a management function, be it as a CTO or one thing else, is unquestionably more durable. You have to construct up some credibility with the workforce and work out the capabilities of every workforce member first.

My recommendation can be to work actually carefully with the workforce, however on the identical time not attempt to take it over.

Do pair programming, stroll via the structure with them, sit down with everybody – not one on one, however as an entire workforce. Most significantly, set out targets and convey what issues you need them to unravel, not the way you need them to try this. Let your teammates make their very own selections and errors. Likelihood is that they will even shock you with their prowess.

Plainly we’re protecting increasingly facets of a tech chief’s communication abilities.

Do you imagine that some leaders are inherently higher at communication than others? One CTO advised me that you simply don’t need to be an extrovert to have the ability to converse up and resolve conflicts. You simply have to take heed to everybody, think about their opinions. What do you consider it?

Gertjan: Personally, I’m not an extrovert, however I additionally don’t assume I’m a typical introvert.

I imagine that you must excel in discussions with the advantage of your arguments, not how loud or outspoken you might be. That would simply create a poisonous surroundings.

I’d somewhat work for an organization the place you possibly can focus on your concepts in a secure area, each one on one and in a bigger group.

I’m fostering a tradition in which you’ll be able to provide you with an concept and current it to the workforce and be taken significantly, even in case you are to be assigned to a distinct undertaking the following day – that’s a wholesome surroundings that each firm ought to attempt to create.

Facilitating discussions is an fascinating facet of communication. Eric, you’ve led profitable tasks aside from CloudSuite, like Straightforward Order and Bridge/400. How vital was tech leaders’ function as a facilitator of a productive dialog there?

Eric: In my former firm, I used to be a tech chief, however I labored with builders who had been extra succesful technically than I used to be. My function was particularly to make it simpler for them to cooperate and to make them really feel smitten by what we constructed.

After all, I knew just about the whole lot there was to know in regards to the product itself, but it surely was nonetheless a totally totally different expertise from what we do immediately at CloudSuite. Know-how has modified a lot. In the present day, you’ve obtained a separate frontend, a DevOps group and way more complexity.

Gertjan: However I believe that Eric continues to be taking part in that function even immediately at CloudSuite. He nonetheless does a number of programming, however he’s additionally the go-to product man that actually is aware of why our clients need the issues they need. He’s a bridge between the client and growth.

There appears to be a number of overlap in your abilities and expertise. Am I proper to imagine that Eric had a huge impact in your progress within the group? How vital was the assistance of different leaders at CloudSuite in your journey?

Gertjan: The boldness that Eric and Okko Huisman (CEO and co-founder of CloudSuite) gave me was most dear.

Whenever you step right into a management function over folks you recognize, you notice you’re now chargeable for their wage discussions and approving their break day.

Eric and I had a number of discussions at the moment in regards to the imposter syndrome – the concept some individuals are afraid to be unmasked as incompetent, even once they completely do have all of the credentials and expertise to succeed.

I might need felt that approach. I requested myself questions resembling: “Why am I on this place?”, or “Why do I get all these possibilities whereas different folks don’t?”. In moments like this, your protect of confidence is skinny and issues get to you simply.

In a extra sensible sense, one of many issues that I’ve struggled with on this space is that I didn’t do sufficient 1on1s and even bilateral discussions with my workforce members. Eric pushed me to problem myself to do them extra and it boosted my confidence.

How did it look out of your perspective, Eric?

Eric: Rather a lot has occurred throughout Gertjan’s journey to the function of CTO, but it surely has all the time felt pure to me. Top-of-the-line issues we have now carried out is taking a lot time earlier than we proceeded with Gertjan’s promotion.

Nonetheless, once we broke the information, we had been just a little afraid in regards to the administration workforce. It’s not a straightforward state of affairs for them when one among them turns into a CTO and joins a board of administrators. However in the end, there have been no main conflicts or issues right here both. No person left the corporate due to Gertjan.

However when you don’t thoughts, Arkadiusz, I’d additionally wish to ask Gertjan one query – did you discover out If you are able to do it, when you actually are reduce out to be a CTO?

Gertjan: Sure, however such as you stated, it was one thing that got here to me regularly. The sensation of being prepared grew on me naturally throughout my years as a growth supervisor.

And talking extra typically, was there ever a second whenever you knew that the managerial path is for you, that there’s no going again to being a daily engineer?

Gertjan: In my earlier firm, I all the time stated I by no means wished to grow to be a supervisor as a result of I wouldn’t get an opportunity to do enjoyable stuff anymore.

And I imagine that I nonetheless had that mindset once I first joined CloudSuite. Even once I turned a workforce lead, I believed that on this function I’d nonetheless be capable to do a number of programming or debugging with different folks. I used to be just a little afraid, however I didn’t assume that I used to be abandoning my earlier obligations.

Even once I moved from being a workforce result in growth supervisor, I nonetheless thought that I might all the time return. I considered myself as a developer-manager. 

However one thing modified when the surroundings started evolving quickly. We obtained a separate DevOps workforce. We broke up one massive workforce into two smaller ones. This additionally meant that the cut up between builders and managers turned extra pronounced. I spotted that I couldn’t return anymore. However I additionally didn’t wish to anymore. I grew to get pleasure from this new path.

Changing into a CTO

Gertjan, this menagerial path might have been settled for you in 2023 whenever you turned a co-CTO. How did your obligations change instantly previous to and after that promotion? Was it extra of a take a look at or one other cease on the trail to being a CTO?

Gertjan: It was positively not a take a look at. It was one thing that I talked about with Eric and different board members.

I turned a co-CTO with Eric in January 2023. The 12 months earlier than, we mentioned how we might divide our obligations. The largest change for me was the truth that I used to be now included in board conferences. However I can’t say that it was an enormous change. Eric had all the time been very open with me about the whole lot regarding CloudSuite. 

Eric: To be sincere, I believe this modification might have been even larger for me. I can keep in mind the day, 1st of January, I used to be pondering: “Shit, I’ve misplaced my job. What did I do?”

I used to be really actually inquisitive about your division of obligations, Eric. It will even be nice when you might supply a perspective on working alongside your former scholar, so to talk, as equals.

Eric: Like Gertjan stated, there was positively no massive bang – the change took a 12 months to implement. There was nobody second when our obligations cut up. It was a gradual and pure stream.

The largest change was realizing that I’m not the one CTO now. Within the first board assembly, I used to be as energetic as traditional. I instantly got here up with solutions as a result of I’m a bit extra direct than Gertjan. After which Okko stopped me: “Eric, you’re not allowed to talk now. Look forward to Gertjan to talk his thoughts”.

It took me a pair weeks or board conferences to get used to it . However I really like my function for the time being as a result of whereas I’m not a part of the on a regular basis selections, I’m nonetheless the dominant advisor within the board of administrators. As one of many founders of the corporate. I do know that I can all the time converse my thoughts when obligatory.

So that you moved from the motive force’s seat to the passenger seat? You continue to have one thing to say, however in the end another person is taking the wheel.

Eric: Effectively, I’m additionally just a little bit navigating.

Gertjan: You might say that Eric is a passenger with the map on his knees.

So it’s nearly like in a race automotive – there’s a driver, after which there may be additionally a pilot.

Gertjan, was the whole lot actually precisely such as you anticipated? There have to be a giant distinction between managing all the division in comparison with main a single workforce.

Gertjan: There’s one fast distinction. It occurred to me someday final 12 months. It’s the belief that you might want to take the entire firm under consideration in your decision-making. 

I do know all the main points and grievances of my workforce. However now I have to weigh them towards enterprise wants and the wants of different groups. I’m nonetheless studying to cope with it.

Earlier than, because the supervisor of a dev workforce, I might permit myself to be extra narrow-focused – so long as my workforce does wonderful, that signifies that the entire firm is ok. After all, this isn’t all the time the case. However even when it wasn’t wonderful, I all the time had Eric to depend on. Now, the accountability is extra on my shoulders. I nonetheless study to deal with that.

Wrapping up

Let’s shut with a phrase of recommendation for builders and tech leaders who aspire to grow to be a CTO sometime.

First, Eric,  what would you advise to builders and tech leaders who wish to set up a powerful connection and mentorship that would assist them hone their management abilities and make a distinction of their careers?

Eric: Don’t search for a mentor who desires to vary you. Search for one that desires that can assist you, particularly in understanding different folks.

Understanding others is what I believe is my forte and what needs to be the forte of every chief. If a workforce has an issue or there’s a problem to debate, you must know how you can tackle it. You must act as a mediator. Nonetheless, you must solely information folks and occasions just a little, with out forcibly altering them.

Aside from that, don’t make your resolution too shortly – neither about who needs to be your mentor nor in regards to the promotion itself. Progress naturally from managing positions, all the best way to management positions, like Gertjan. Do it step-by-step. It should really feel proper to you, such as you’re getting in the appropriate course.

Gertjan – what made the largest distinction for you alongside the journey we’ve lined? What would you’ve carried out in another way to get even higher outcomes?

Gertjan: Maybe I might have began the journey earlier.

In my earlier firm, there have been additionally a number of alternatives. I didn’t attain out for them at the moment. Trying again, possibly I ought to have been extra proactive.

Then once more, I’m in a fantastic place now so maybe issues turned out the best way they need to have.

There’s some psychological work that you might want to do to ease your self into a brand new function with extra obligations. Whenever you really land that place you wished, attempt to say it out loud: “I’m a developer supervisor”, or: “I’m a CTO”.

It doesn’t really feel like a lot, however saying these easy details like this actually helped me internalize this new function, made me notice that this can be a path I’m taking. It’s additionally a distinct approach of claiming: “Go for it.”

Sources

Are you able to additionally advocate some studying assets that increase on a lot of these points we talked about immediately?

Gertjan: There’s one guide I’d actually wish to advocate – Speed up.

It’s one of many readings that sparked our curiosity in and journey towards microservices and steady integration 4 years in the past. It’s a should learn for CTOs, administration, architects, and builders – to the purpose that we give a replica of it to all of our new arrivals.

What’s subsequent? 3 classes for CTOs to use

So, what do you assume? Do you continue to imagine you’ve obtained what it takes to grow to be a CTO? Are you able to climb to the highest? No have to rush issues. When you take Gertjan’s recommendation, chances are high that issues will merely fall into place by themselves. Simply keep in mind:

• Don’t simply take orders, strive your greatest to affect and alter the surroundings round you. Be in shut contact with different departments and clients and acquire a high-level understanding of the product and firm.
• Let your workforce shine – whenever you acquire just a little energy, don’t let it go to your head and don’t micromanage. You will have to code much less and belief the capabilities of your teammates. Like Eric says, you might want to perceive them, too.
• Remember that it takes time for all this to really feel proper – each time you get one other promotion, you’ve obtained increasingly in your shoulders. You at the moment are chargeable for the entire firm. It’s tense and it will get higher with time.

Good luck!