Some managers love issuing instructions, and a few builders don’t thoughts merely following orders. However Martin Mazur believes you must attempt a distinct method to steer your group by unsure instances and create enterprise worth quicker than the competitors. Use outcome-driven growth to boost your group’s creativity and navigate a VUCA world.
The CTO vs Standing Quo collection attracts consideration to how CTOs problem the present state of affairs within the firm to push the enterprise in direction of new heights … or to reserve it from doom.
What does an IT chief should do with enjoying Tetris?
A single piece is falling down the display. You’re focusing your consideration on shifting it to the proper place. Now, you’re bracing your self as a result of you recognize that one other piece goes to comply with quickly. And it’s going to maneuver quicker than the earlier one.
That could be a tough description of Tetris’ gameplay, however it additionally captures what our visitor Martin Mazur has to say in regards to the software program growth course of: give attention to the current – prioritize motion over inaction.
Consequence-driven growth ditches the apply of crafting detailed feature-oriented roadmaps in favor of giving software program builders issues to unravel and letting them work out the most effective answer right here and now, whether or not by writing code or by artistic problem-solving.
However an method like this requires creativity that doesn’t simply seem out of nowhere. It’s essential assist foster it. Martin helps us perceive tips on how to construct groups and foster expertise like this to navigate VUCA (volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity). Stick round to search out out:
- why faculties kill creativity and tips on how to assist workers reclaim it,
- tips on how to encourage folks to be self-driven by main with context,
- why doing implementation and discovery in parallel is healthier than discovery in iterations,
- why you want a various expertise pool to sort out the challenges of at present.
Let’s get artistic.
Martin began as a software program developer however quickly discovered his calling as a tech lead, agile coach, and advisor, serving to shoppers construct nice groups and merchandise. He co-founded one in every of Sweden’s prime consultancies and held the function of CTO and CTPO for a few years. Right this moment, he works as an impartial guide with a mission of eradicating inner friction between tech and enterprise.
Technical management, product growth, management growth, digital technique, product administration, government teaching, technical imaginative and prescient
Future tech, vinyl information, Muay Thai
Say good day to Martin
Hello, Martin. You latterly visited Warsaw to talk on the 4Developers convention. Inform me extra about it.
My pal in Sweden informed me about 4Developers. Regardless of its identify, they’ve expanded into the tech management house. I used to be one in every of just some to current in English.
I offered “Main Tech Groups in Unsure Instances” – one in every of my hottest talks. I’m not shocked by this. We actually reside in unsure instances.
I want I might watch you reside. I noticed the web model, and it impressed me to speak in regards to the want for extra creativity in software program growth.
You mentioned that hard-to-predict occasions shatter probably the most well-researched plans and roadmaps. To deal with this, you suggest reorienting your staff’s focus from options to issues.
How do you see your mission as a C-level supervisor in mild of this?
In case you assume your job as a CTO is to make selections, you’re not prone to succeed. You’ll finally get overwhelmed and make poor decisions.
The perfect leaders give attention to shaping the massive image and offering their groups with context. They do this as a result of they need their workers to be motivated and self-driven. Then, they’ll delegate decision-making to them – the people who find themselves nearer to the issues.
Inform folks the issues and allow them to work out the solutions – that’s the way you construct a scalable group at present. I believe it’s far more thrilling than the previous manner of commanding and controlling.

Half 1 – outcome-driven growth
Issues-over-features can also be what we mentioned at size in our interview with Smartum’s Mika Pauralahti. It’s the essence of outcome-driven growth. How do you see the function of outcome-driven growth at present?
Normally, the most effective method is to empower your groups, give them issues to unravel, after which give attention to delivering actual buyer or enterprise worth. Consequence-driven growth creates individuals who care and higher buyer experiences, too.
Nonetheless, I don’t assume we should always disqualify function groups wholly. In some instances, it is perhaps price pursuing them. Operating a product staff is difficult. Not that many engineers wish to work in an outcome-based staff. This method creates an additional layer of duties – you want interpersonal expertise, empathy, and a deep understanding of customers, enterprise, and design pondering.
As a CTO, you must study your group and resolve which groups can probably be outcome-driven and which will be output-driven. There isn’t a one-size-fits-all method right here; it’s extra case-by-case.
Why and the way ought to a CTO — who has by no means used this method — heat as much as the thought of an outcome-driven staff?
The perfect factor about CTOs is that they normally have a technical background. I exploit two psychological fashions that assist them perceive the necessity for decentralized decision-making.
One is a couple of messaging delay. Once I resolve as a CTO, I would like to speak it to my tech leaders. They should inform their architects, after which the architects speak to builders about it.
So, each time one thing modifications, the choice takes time to succeed in everybody. When directions aren’t clear and new questions come up, the data should return the identical manner. This delay in communication limits the flexibility to reply to ongoing challenges.
The second psychological mannequin is about constructing your group as a great piece of software program.
As a CTO, you’re the “catch-all” on the prime. Ideally, you don’t need any exceptions to hit you. You wish to implement your group in order that any errors are caught earlier. In case you get quite a lot of exceptions of the identical variety, it means one thing is improper with the construction of your group or utility. It’s essential go forward and tweak it.
Your group received’t scale when you have sluggish communication paths and handle all of the exceptions your self. To develop sustainably, you must distribute decision-making and problem-solving.
Consequence-driven growth requires quite a lot of creativity. There are not any predefined necessities, simply issues to unravel as you see match.
In your speak, you gave an instance of how faculties kill creativity by educating college students that what issues is that you just resolve an issue with the offered system relatively than your manner. The analysis you cited reveals that the expectation to comply with a pre-defined line of pondering turns brilliant kids into adults who can’t do something and not using a step-by-step recipe.
Can folks taught the standard method reclaim their creativity?
What you might be referring to is analysis executed in 1968 by George Land and Beth Jarman. They gave kids the NASA take a look at for creativity, which NASA additionally provides to engineers and scientists to measure their creativity.
Total, 1,600 kids between 3 and 5 participated, and 98% scored within the genius class. Nonetheless, after they retested them a few years later, the outcomes dropped considerably and continued to drop with every attempt.
So why is it occurring? I can solely provide you with my assumption. Our college system developed throughout industrialization and by no means moved previous it. The varsity tells you to sit down and do your work in 50 minutes. Then, you get a 10-minute break. That is how factories work.
Creativity is just not appreciated as a result of a manufacturing unit employee must do every part predictably and by the guide. In case you have a look at math courses in major college, you aren’t simply anticipated to provide the proper reply however to reach on the reply in a predetermined method. That turns into ingrained in all our minds as we age.
Can we unwind this? The quick reply is sure.
There are two varieties of pondering — divergent pondering, generally referred to as artistic pondering, and convergent pondering, which is extra about discovering an answer. The issue is that convergent pondering kills divergent pondering.
Once we are divergent, we don’t dismiss or rationalize concepts. All the pieces is allowed. You possibly can create one thing loopy, like portray a rhinoceros in your model’s colours and working it by town streets.
Then, within the convergent part comes the time to rationalize it. Maybe you could possibly make a digital rhinoceros run by your web page?
By permitting divergent pondering to exist independently, e.g., not judging concepts in brainstorming periods, you open your self to infantile artistic pondering.
As soon as folks perceive how these modes of pondering work, they’ll use them in apply; simply realizing about them is sufficient.
Half 2 – VUCA – Volatility
It appears to be like like there’s hope for creativity amongst adults!
In your speak, you talked about VUCA, a problem-solving framework initially launched by the U.S. Military Conflict School in 1987. It tackles the world’s unpredictability and considers 4 parts: volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. You used it to offer attention-grabbing examples of fostering creativity.
The trendy world is risky, and IT corporations should act shortly. However they received’t be quick sufficient in the event that they conduct product discovery solely inside iterations. Are you able to clarify this?
Doing discovery work in iterations, that’s, having a discovery dash after which a supply dash one after one other, is probably not efficient.
You do virtually waterfall – you will have a analysis part after which an implementation part. You fail to seize what you discovered through the supply, don’t feed it again into discovery, and danger losing assets constructing the improper factor.
Once you have a look at fashions that run discovery and supply in parallel, you see fixed suggestions loops on the stuff you construct. Let’s have a look at an instance.
You may have an enormous drop-off fee of shoppers within the purchasing cart. You have a look at the info and develop a thesis. You feed that again into the supply part. Engineers can begin determining tips on how to implement this and put in some early work. You possibly can see how the info modifications and might feed that again once more into the invention work. You may also uncover that your first thesis was improper whenever you get deeper into the invention. It’s essential refocus your supply instantly.
The Agile mannequin is usually problematic as a result of it forces you to separate issues into iterations. However not every part is splittable. In case you attempt to construct a automotive, you must ship a automotive, not a skateboard. Delivering a skateboard is just not buyer worth; that’s not what the client anticipated.
So, it appears that evidently an outcome-based method forces you to place much less emphasis on constructions or processes. It’s essential be extra versatile. How do you mediate conflicts between opposing concepts from completely different departments, then? The place is the road between unrestrained creativity and chaos?
There shouldn’t be any cross-department conflicts if every staff is liable for discovery and implementation solely inside their a part of the product.
In a setup like this, battle ought to solely exist inside one staff. Division interdependence is, ideally, largely eliminated.
To get the most effective leads to parallel discovery and supply, I like to recommend having a robust trio of a tech lead, a design lead, and a product supervisor on every staff. With out them, discovery can’t be executed effectively.
Half 3 – VUCA – Uncertainty
The inherent uncertainty means you can’t have a plan for achievement that can positively work. And but, you want a plan to persuade buyers to fund your initiatives and gifted folks to comply with you. Your reply is to steer with context. What does it imply?
It means giving folks sufficient details about what you wish to obtain with out overwhelming them.
There are a few layers to main with context.
The primary layer is about being good at portray the imaginative and prescient of how the world, particularly your shoppers’ world, will look when your organization reaches its final goal.
The subsequent layer of context is the present utility you’re employed on. You possibly can envision how the product will look in 5-10 years. Amazon makes use of the working backward technique seen in its press releases to point out what it thinks its product will appear to be in 10 years. Asana made a cool video of how folks will use its instrument in 10 years as effectively.
This content material doesn’t inform buyers what options you’ll construct. As a substitute, it goals to encourage them and likewise to exhibit what issues you wish to resolve.
You may assume that inspiration is just not that a lot, however that’s what stakeholders have to make selections. After they resolve to go proper and left, you say: do you keep in mind the imaginative and prescient? In case you nonetheless imagine in it, we should go that manner.
The ultimate layer considerations the short-term context. You may say, “That is how our funds look. That’s why we have to give attention to income now. Income is now much less necessary.” When making selections, folks should know what metrics you utilize at a given second to ship on that.
So, there are completely different layers to main with context. There’s the massive firm imaginative and prescient for the world, the applying you construct and the way it makes the imaginative and prescient potential, and numerous short-term issues.
So, having a product imaginative and prescient is the important thing to attracting buyers. Does it additionally appeal to artistic minds?
It does as a result of it attracts folks whose pursuits align together with your firm’s. When your imaginative and prescient resonates with them, they wish to embark on a journey with you.
A robust imaginative and prescient has that sort of impact. Keep in mind that you’ll not manufacture such a imaginative and prescient out of skinny air. It must be real and inherently tied to the character of your organization and its work.
Sadly, most corporations at present spend manner too little time growing such compelling visions. They’re too keen to construct.
Talking of the urge to construct, when the time comes to try this, you advocate specializing in the fast drawback forward. You used the instance of the sport of Tetris – solely the following block shifting in direction of you issues. That sounds nice for fostering creativity.
Nonetheless, some CTOs can’t assist however give attention to the long run. They learn trade studies and use traits to foretell long-term modifications. Is there nonetheless a spot for that if you wish to give attention to pace?
I used the Tetris sport analogy to inform those who generally it’s necessary to decide no matter whether or not you will have all the info. It’s to keep away from paralysis.
Typically, folks keep away from tackling an issue as a result of they don’t imagine they’ve all the info to resolve. The factor is, you’ll in all probability by no means have all the info. However not making a choice can also be a choice – the brick will fall anyway. Hold doing that, and you’ll lose the sport.
In VUCA, the worst factor to do is to abstain from making a transfer. In case you make a mistake, you may all the time compensate for it later.
Let’s say you learn a report on Synthetic Intelligence. It says that AI is on the rise. It’s essential resolve whether or not to speculate effort and time in it. Are you taking a look at potential GPT integrations? The worst factor you are able to do is to say: let’s wait and see what occurs. In case you don’t wish to do it, that’s wonderful, however say it clearly in order that your workers know that they shouldn’t distract themselves with AI for now. You possibly can revisit the choice in 6 or 12 months.
Half 4 – VUCA – Complexity
In earlier interviews, we additionally mentioned observability as one strategy to embrace the complexity of contemporary growth. Nonetheless, knowledge is only one facet of complexity. The sheer tempo of modifications is one other. Your reply is to work with constraints. Inform us extra about it. Easy methods to use constraints creatively?
I like constraints. The smaller the room for motion you give your self, the extra artistic your options should be.
A deadline can encourage creativity. When you’ve got infinite time to unravel an issue, you may develop a really complicated answer. However in simply three months, chances are you’ll develop a a lot easier concept. Chances are you’ll be compelled to make use of your creativity extra.
Time constraints are typical for startups: “We have to do it in 3 months, or we’re useless.”
Higher but, you must foster creativity in your groups on an ongoing foundation in order that they’ll faucet into their artistic potential in response to any constraints which will come up, not simply those you designed.
You even imagine consciously imposing constraints on product growth could also be a good suggestion. How does it work? Instinctively, it appears at odds with fostering creativity.
Let’s say you wish to appeal to extra customers to your platform. This can be a big problem with many potential implications and methods to unravel it. Nonetheless, it modifications whenever you put some constraints on it.
For instance, chances are you’ll select to draw folks within the 25-35 age bracket fascinated about shopping for vinyl information. Now, that’s a way more tangible drawback that’s much less prone to change. You narrowed down drawback areas.
In fact, this constraint is especially clear as a result of I made it up. Nonetheless, you may develop reasonable constraints that will help you resolve issues from inside your group.
Half 5 – VUCA – Ambiguity
Ambiguity is about embracing variations. Folks can sort out the identical points from completely different views, every contributing one thing to the group’s creativity.
Are you able to give me some examples of the way it helped make a distinction within the software program growth surroundings?
You possibly can consider an issue as a seashore ball. When folks stand round it, they see it from completely different views.
I’ve a pal who works with UX. He found many UX-related points solely after he acquired a color-blind particular person on the staff.
Let’s think about one other instance from a broader engineering world. Again within the day, solely males labored on airbag growth. All crash take a look at dummies had a male profile, too. They didn’t account for ladies, who had smaller bones, decrease bone density, and fewer muscular necks. Consequently, the primary airbags have been much less efficient for ladies.
Embracing ambiguity is about leveraging completely different experiences. The way in which I expertise the world and the way in which a black girl experiences the world is completely different. Even when we grew up in the identical neighborhood, we nonetheless have completely different experiences. You possibly can’t change your perspective to any individual else’s perspective, even in the event you’re probably the most empathetic particular person in the entire world.
You say that everybody can convey a contemporary perspective to the staff. However how can you make sure that all these numerous voices are equally appreciated in an IT group?
Assuming you will have lined all of the fundamentals of variety and inclusion in your group, leaders also can “lend their privilege.”
Folks hearken to you since you’re a frontrunner. Use it to everybody’s benefit.
Once you inform any individual, ” You must hearken to Janet as a result of she’s an skilled on this,” or “I’m not going to come back to the assembly, however I’m going to ship any individual else as a result of they know their stuff,” you may assist numerous, gifted folks get into extra positions and locations.
Ideally, it shouldn’t should be this fashion, however it generally is. However, by lending your privilege, you may change the panorama little by little.
Additionally, you must be careful for misconduct and react decisively whenever you see it.
Some leaders worry dropping face and fail to intervene after they see somebody interrupt one other particular person or steal their concepts. You want to have the ability to name that out. I do that myself. It shortly modifications the tradition of your group.
At first, it felt a bit scary. Nonetheless, attempt asking, “Hey, did you simply do this?” and see how shortly your group modifications into one which welcomes all the varied voices and abilities.
After which, there’s the no-assholes rule. When you’ve got these in your staff, eliminate them.
Once I coach a staff, I can generally see {that a} particular particular person is an issue. They bring about the entire staff down and take an excessive amount of house, pushing their concepts aggressively. They don’t let different folks converse up. I inform the shopper about it and counsel eradicating them. They usually say this particular person is their best contributor. However I’m virtually positive that the remainder of the staff will make up for the productiveness in the event that they get rid of them. That’s as a result of the particular person has been holding again the expansion of the whole staff with their angle.
Half 6 – Fostering creativity in the long term
Let’s sum issues up. You’re a fan of bettering issues as you go. Nonetheless, CTOs ought to all the time give attention to the long-term sport.
You mentioned a retrospective as a manner for everybody to share suggestions and enhance upon it. You mentioned a retro shouldn’t be restricted to a particular time slot. How do you see its function in fostering creativity?
I see room for each formal and casual retros.
Doing retrospectives repeatedly is an efficient facilitator of change. However give attention to one or two stuff you wish to change. One mistake organizations make is making an attempt to vary too many issues in every retro. Let it take time. Discover your largest ache level and determine it out correctly.
Casual, impromptu retros are very helpful and underrated. If one thing occurs and the location goes down, you must work laborious to drag it collectively. Then, sit down to speak about what occurred, what went effectively, what went badly, and what you are able to do higher subsequent time. If there’s a disagreement, do a fast 15-minute retro within the morning with the staff.
There’s extra room for reflection in most organizations than folks assume. Retrospectives don’t have to be confined to fastened time slots.
Does this method scale? In case your group turns into more and more complicated, are you able to foster every particular person’s creativity that manner?
Some big corporations, akin to Amazon, Netflix, Spotify, and Google, work with these fashions. All of them have outcome-driven groups.
Not one of the corporations I discussed use the identical processes. All of them have other ways of working or structuring their groups. Nonetheless, all of them attempt to foster creativity of their groups by empowerment and accountability for the merchandise they ship.
Watch the entire Main Tech Groups in Unsure Instances speak for extra particulars!
Half 7 – Assets
I do know you publish content material that helps CTOs foster a artistic surroundings of their organizations. I’m positive that you just’ve additionally come throughout many attention-grabbing titles from different creators. Are you able to share a few of your finest finds?
Main in Flux is a podcast I began with my pal Ebba Laurin. She is a wonderful skilled in entrepreneurship and management and taught me about VUCA.
The thought behind the podcast is to debate what it takes to be a frontrunner in unsure instances. We hope to offer a basis for management that isn’t afraid of fixed change and all the time able to act.
If you wish to study fostering creativity particularly, then A Lovely Constraint is a guide for you. I’ve learn it with my administration staff. It tackles the problems we mentioned and has many particular tales and examples.
If you would like one thing much more sensible, attempt Google Enterprise Dash. It covers what you referred to as the problems-over-features method. It teaches you tips on how to manage sprints targeted on fixing issues creatively. The guide is sweet, too, however I believe the online web page is sufficient to get the thought.

What’s subsequent? Three actions for CTOs to take
So, what do you assume? Are you now prepared to steer a artistic group that may transfer quick and decisively in a VUCA world?
Environment friendly outcome-driven growth is inside your attain – simply be sure to sow the seeds at present. Do that by:
- letting your groups select measurable objectives to attain and the most effective technique to get there,
- allowing your groups to do product discovery and retrospectives asynchronously and when wanted, not simply inside inflexible processes,
- utilizing divergent pondering and constraints to energy and develop the creativity of your group.
So, what would you do If the principles of rationality didn’t apply?